The other day I noticed a Twitter friend defensively baring her soul in tweets with the hashtag #NWNW. Curiosity peaked, I followed the thread to learn that this acronym stood for a new movement called No Wedding No Womb, aimed at having “couples abstain from having children until they are emotionally, physically and financially able to care for them” (visit http://noweddingnowomb.com/ for reference). Though the movement is meant for all potential parents, it is largely directed at black youth since the black community is reportedly in a state of crisis concerning this matter.
On the surface a fairly benign and perhaps even admirable concept, I was puzzled by the all out blitz of tweets my friend sent in defense of single moms. Apprehensively I sent her a couple of TMI tweets because I knew I would not be able to convey the concern in such a delicate manner within the 140 character limit. In her reply she acknowledged that, as a single mom herself, the issue was personal to her and her issue was not with the concept but rather how it was playing out in practice. In her opinion, the participants were “preachy”, placed the burden largely on the women and fell short of providing practical suggestions. In addition, the movement reportedly put forth the notion that women became single mothers because they failed to “value” themselves.
Then last night, I happened across another series of NWNW tweets in which a teenage black girl was clearly put off by the movement and responded with highly intelligent questions and rebuttals. Initially it appears she was on board but became disheartened by the language of its advocates. Apparently, there was some comparison made between the offspring of out-of-wedlock children to feral animals. The movement’s leader suggested that such semantics were used for shock value to get people listening and suggested the movement “E-adopt” this young lady.
As an educated black wife and mother, having a Bachelor’s degree in psychology with a minor in African-American studies and a Master’s degree in social work, I couldn’t help but to explore the larger psychological, historical and societal implications of this movement within the black community.
The first place I started was with the movement’s proprietor, Christelyn D. Karazin (see her bio here http://noweddingnowomb.com/) a black female journalist, self-proclaimed “baby mamma” turned wife and advocate of interracial relationships. Normally I wouldn’t touch the latter but since I see it as pertinent to this discussion I think I’ll go there. After all, any movement will be led in the direction of the captain of its ship.
My paternal grandmother was mixed, as the popular vernacular of time explained the product of a black and white parent, and was vehemently against such unions. I can remember one of our final visits to Jamaica to see her before she passed. My sister, newly engaged to a white man, shows my grandmother a picture of her fiancĂ© and announces her pending nuptials. With pause my grandmother examined the picture, turned to me and asked, “Wat you tink bout dem tings?” I replied that I wasn’t particularly in favor of interracial relationships to which my grandmother replied, “Me neither. Me tink de children dem come out confused.”
My sister was hurt and she felt that our standpoint was racist. Now I’m not sure my grandmother and I were on the same page for the same reasons but being that she was speaking from experience, I had to respect her opinion. As for me, I used a simplistic metaphor to explain my reasoning. My college roommate and friend, a white woman who dated across the spectrum, and I often had this debate. One day I asked her, “Do you entertain guests in a dirty house?” Of course she stated she would not to which I replied that as black people we have too much house cleaning to do before we can entertain guests, a reference to the psychological, emotional and financial healing of the community.
Prior to learning about African–American history, high school was my first integrated experience. I remember having strong reactions to subliminal lessons that black people were somehow inherently uncivilized and inferior (until white people taught them better that is). This led to my quest to learn about American race relations. Learning the truth about slavery left me psychologically scarred and in homage to my ancestral mothers, wives and sisters, I made a personal vow to never be intimate with a white man. The idea that slave masters raped black women for both business and pleasure, that children were stolen from their parents and families, that black fathers were left powerless to provide for and protect their families induced a pain that cannot be explained.
Given these considerations, I could not help but wonder if the NWNW movement is being guided by confused and pained leaders, who fail to acknowledge the systematic attempt of a nation to exterminate a stolen people who are no longer deemed economically viable and represent the reminder of the nation’s horrific origins.
The leader has often pointed out that in the time of MLK over 70 percent of black children lived with their parents. Has the reason for the decline in the numbers since that time been explored, such as the racial disparity in education, employment, wages and imprisonment? Or is simply because of our feral ways?
So what would happen if the future mothers and fathers of our bloodline wholeheartedly followed this movement? Given the fact that they should not procreate until they are “emotionally, physically and financially able to care for” children, that would significantly reduce the census of this already identified minority. Suddenly I got the image of the movement handing our youth loaded guns, safety off, with the directive to “Kill yourself!”
In college I was in an elite honors statistical course, only the top 12 students and I was the only one of color. We had to do a study and I remember a peer doing a comparison of the success rates of various ethnic groups post graduation. She, a young white woman, concluded that blacks were “less successful” to which I challenged her measure of success. She stated that whites went on to earn more money in careers such as doctors and lawyers while blacks were more likely to be teachers and nurses. I challenged that perhaps the needs of the communities were different and that money should not be the ultimate measure of success.
Following my own advice I took a look in the mirror. Am I personalizing this issue? I would have to say I am. See, based on everything I learned about majority perception of the black community, one might say that I personally took the NWNW vow. The last thing I wanted to be was a statistic. I didn’t dare have a child before completing my education, being secure in my career and marriage. Initially my husband and I wanted three or four children but we instead have one son, who regularly pleads for a sibling. One day I told him we couldn’t afford one and he got very upset and told me I was teasing him. I explained that the opportunities we provide for him would be limited if we increased our family. In writing this piece I had to ask myself if I had been bamboozled? Had I actually bought into the value system imposed on a stolen people? Was I mind-fucked into self-sterilization thus contributing to the ultimate genocide of our community? Oh hell, despite my best efforts I managed to be violated and my children were stolen from me after all!
With this in mind I was left thinking, perhaps the solution to our “crisis” (albeit a highly irresponsible suggestion) is not to limit our offspring at all but rather the exact opposite, continue to produce despite the identified obstacles; strength in numbers right? Maybe our successors will unite and clean not only the house but the neighborhood, community and ultimately the nation.
With any seemingly black and white issue, the true solution typically lies somewhere in the midst of the gray area. At this point in time I am not sure that we should be making attempts to drastically reduce or increase our population. One thing is clear though, anyone who attempts to tackle this issue should closely examine their own values, from its origins to its intentions, before attempting to impose them on others, especially in such a personal area with far reaching psychological, financial and societal implications. Remember, communication is key and not just semantics.
What do you think?
Ready to go.♥
-
By the time my new novel comes out, it will have been two years since I
released a book.
It's not unheard of; writers often go a couple of years between ...
1 day ago



Here's the problem with your arguement about me and my husband (by the way, is so low a blow that I can't even tell you) he's ancestry did not arrive in the U.S. until 1900. Should I hold him responsible anyway? Because some black women have killed their kids, because you are black, should I hold you responsible?
ReplyDeleteAnd another thought: Unless your date is 150 years old, I think its a little unfair to hold every white man accountable.
But thank you for doing this. In a way, you're bolstering me, because any person in their right mind can see you're using this as a smokescreen to deflect the issue.
So I guess I should say thank you.
I'm sorry I have no idea what you are saying in this post. I find it quite disturbing that you see a movement like No Wedding, No Womb which calls for both black men AND black women to make wiser choices so that their children can grow up in a stable, healthy environment as a "genocide" of the black community. Unbelievable! Heaven forbid we ask for people to THINK before laying down with someone. Heaven forbid we ask people to know who they are and love themselves first before getting into relationships, marriage, and having children. Heaven forbid we even ask people to get married (or some spiritual, long term union) before having children. Heaven forbid we ask people to use multiple forms of birth control so that not only not having unwanted pregnancies, but protect themselves from STDs. Heaven forbid we ask people to KNOW that if you don't want children and don't have the means to provide for said children that you should do all you can to protect yourself (including using abstinence). I have so many things to say right now, but this post has me reeling. It's poster like you that keeps that black community the way it is right now. Our community is in danger right now, and if we don't wake the freak up, we are at risk of making ourselves "extinct" from our own dangerous actions. If you ask me, NOT following movements such as NO Wedding, No Womb is causing our own genocide. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteOh, I might add that "white people" aren't the only ones who hands are unclean from what happened during slavery. You might want to study that part of history more, because our ancestors, "stolen people" as you put it, were actually sold into to slavery with the help of their African brothers and sisters. Both groups played a part in such a gruesome part of our ancestors' capture.
ReplyDeleteMy point of this comment:
We need to stop pointing fingers at the "white man". Not all white people or any other people are racists. Just like some BLACK people are racists. Let's call it like it is. If you don't like IRR unions, then you ARE racists. BTW, another history lesson you need to study, there have been white people and others who have contributed to black causes since slavery until the civil rights movement and beyond. Why do we still label all white people and others as racists knowing such things?
Christelyn, I am amazed that all you took away from this piece is a personal attack against your marriage. There were no low blows and no smokescreens. The only cloud is apparently your own insecurity which prevents you from listening to reason. As stated I made a personal vow that allowed me to deal with a painful truth about history. I do not tell anyone they have to or should feel the way that I do. I am all for love and whomever anyone finds that with I say all the best.
ReplyDeleteAs for your response tweets & comment on your blog, I never said you are not qualified to lead because you are married to a white man. One does not need to be 150 years old to still be affected by the institution of slavery. The devastating effects of this system continue to affect black people today. If you are leading a movement targeted at this population then you should understand the needs of your target audience. I would hope that if you were leading a movement to combat starvation and the starving people refused to eat your food, you would not simply dismiss them as ignorant haters like you are doing with the critics of #NWNW. I would hope that you would explore the possibility that the food is spoiled.
As I stated the idea that "couples abstain from having children until they are emotionally, physically and financially able to care for them” is admirable an obviously ideal. We need to recognize that the desire to reproduce is an innate need. What is the movement doing to prepare our youth to meet the suggested standard for reproduction?
Furthermore, what is the standard? What makes them emotionally, physically and financially able? Who sets this standard? As the leader, if you are trying to obtain a mark that means you are setting the standard, defining the terms. Given the backlash you are receiving from single moms and potential parents, I question whether the ideals you have adopted are out of touch with the needs and issues of your target population. If they never meet your standard, is your message then "You are not worthy of reproduction?"
It seems that you are so busy throwing out your credentials and beliefs, that you got way off track in addressing this issue. This movement in my opinion is a love issue. We are having serious problems finding lasting love, and keeping it. I know some of the NWNW writers have many different agendas and points of view, and yours seem just as off base as theirs. This issue is not a government issue, it's an us issue. We need to move forward, and stop blaming others for problems we can take care of. It is not just a youth issue either. Children are living with one parent because well-educated, well-informed individuals choose to divorce or be irresponsible. We have got to empower ourselves to make the right choices, and that starts with us.
ReplyDeleteIf we continue to produce in an ineffective way we will continue to kill each other, and die from our own ills, so what's the point. We will just produce more and more suffering.
Elaine, Where do I begin? In no way do I label all white people as racist. In fact if you re-read this piece there is no statement referring to white people as racist at all. I am well aware and thankful for the fact that there are many people of all races that have championed civil rights causes. I am also aware that some misguided black people contributed to enslavement just as some continue to oppress today.
ReplyDeleteAs for the notion that if one does not like interracial unions that makes them racist, I find that ridiculous. I also refused to date men under 6 feet tall. It is what it is, MY personal preference and every individual has the right to choose for themselves. As stated in my comment to Christelyn, I am absolutely pro-love and whomever someone finds it with I wish them well. All I simply did was share the fact that I chose not to be intimate with white men and my personal reasoning for it to demonstrate that slavery continues to affect black people today. Sorry if it angers you but I do have the right to make these decisions for my vagina.
As for NWNW, as stated on the surface the idealogy is admirable. As a social worker who has worked in schools, foster care and an HIV/AIDS pediatric clinic I have personally & professionally taught the idea of personal responsibility. Clearly, too many people are now taking the idea of parenting lightly and these are concepts that need to be addressed. No argument there.
My contention with the NWNW movement is not with the basic ideals but rather with how the message is being delivered. As my mother often said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." Clearly the language being used by leaders & supporters has managed to offend many people, including the target population.
In my work with children and families teaching these very responsibilities, I learned that in order to adjust one's thinking and behavior you must first understand where the person is coming from. Whether or not you agree with their rational, their thoughts and feelings must be validated and respected if you are to have any chance of them listening to you. The NWNW movement simply dismisses any criticism as "haters" without taking credence.
If a movement is simply content with preaching to the choir, what is the purpose other than to feed the egos of those leading? By insulting or dismissing the issues, feelings and needs of the target population you may encounter resistance/retaliation thus rendering the movement itself as counter-productive.
As in my previous comment: What is the standard of being emotionally, physically & financially able to have children? How much money does one need to have the right to reproduce? What are we doing to help the target population meet this standard?
I think you made a good point. However, as someone who is in an interracial relationship, I question your decision to apply blanket stereotype to every white man in this country.
ReplyDeleteLove's Gumbo, Thank you for your comment. The intent of this piece was not to address relationships or parenting but rather to caution NWNW advocates against insulting or dismissing their target population. As stated in the beginning, this post came about after seeing series of tweets by people defending against NWNW, leaving me wondering why such a seemingly positive cause would have such backlash.
ReplyDeleteSelf-awareness is of the utmost importance in conveying a value system. When I advised my Twitter friend to take a step back and look at NWNW objectively, its leaders readily responded AMEN! Are we ALL willing to do that? So yes, I did choose to examine my own beliefs and values.
As for throwing my credentials out there, trust me it is not something I usually do. It's not even in my bio. Unfortunately many NWNW advocates are quick to dismiss people as uneducated or ignorant in the face of crticism, so in this instance I felt it warranted.
I agree with you that we need to take personal responsibility and do better. I am a strong advocate of self-empowerment and that begins with tackling our own issues and moving forward. Hopefully we will improve our choices and our communities.
The New Black Woman, Thank you for your comment and I wish you all the best in your relationship. I'm not sure what blanket stereotype you are referring to. If it is about my personal choice not to be intimate with white men, it is simply the way I personally chose to cope with a painful history. I shared that to show we all have our issues. That's why we should be careful in discussions and movements to shift value systems.
ReplyDeleteHello g.g. Spirit Writes. I agree with some of what you've said... while at the same time disagreed with other notions. I just found out about this movement through my girl, Sister Toldja's blog and twitter.
ReplyDeleteI understand and sympathize with your concern of "who" is spearheading this particular movement; "No Wedding, No Womb". However, I don't question Christelyn Karazin because she's in an interracial relationship. She does, though, promote interracial relationships. How is this important? Well... how is it not?
Since she promotes interracial relationships, then certainly her motives for addressing the Black family at all should be questioned (as you've done). I've visited Christelyn's blog and the blogs of several other women who share her views (interracial promoters) to get a sense of what goes on. The Black women who "respectfully" take oppositional views to those of the collective are talked down on nearly all of these sites (whether aggressively or passive-aggressively). Also, the only times Black men are mentioned on these blogs are when they are being denigrated and defamed. So, if a person contributes, allows and encourages this train of thought on their blogs or amongst their friends online... why would they expect to be met with open arms should they try to interact with the very people they defame?
Usually, the message is all that's supposed to matter, especially in terms of trying to better our community. What you seem to be saying, g.g., is that it'd be foolish to NOT consider the context of that very message. Who is the message coming from? I agree, because context changes the meaning of a message. But, it doesn't mean that a person in an interracial relationship is unable to want the best for the Black family.
However, in this case, I fear that your sentiments are dead on. It's weird that a person who feels like Black men are not a viable option for Black women (hence "promoting interracial relationships") feels as though she can reach to these very men en masse... for the purpose of marriage. I hope someone can explain this disconnect to me. I'm not being facetious, I want to understand this.
K. Michel, Thank you for such an eloquent analysis! I also "don't question Christelyn Karazin because she's in an interracial relationship". The reason I chose to share my personal issue was to demonstrate that our values and choices are driven by our personal beliefs/pains and don't expect everyone to agree. My hope is that NWNW advocates will examine their values in attempting to address the reproduction of a community with whom they may be out of touch. Again, thank you!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWow, thank you g.g.! This was an intriguing, thought-provoking post that needed to be written.
ReplyDelete"My hope is that NWNW advocates will examine their values in attempting to address the reproduction of a community with whom they may be out of touch."
This is an intriguing comment. I might have to devote a blog post to it, even. I see it as a step in the right direction when Black men and women are no longer willing to take counsel with another Black person... just because they're Black themselves. We have to share like-minded goals. That's the most important issue.
ggspiritwrites:
ReplyDeleteRespectfully, I find your logic bizarre. I don't mind that people react to something emotionally, but I do mind when someone tries to dress it up as a reasoned response.
What always amazes me is how its only us the black community who are stuck on the 'victim' mentality of poor us descendant of slavery, hence every destructive element inflicted on the black community within themselves should be excused or blamed on long ago history. Every other minorities in the world experienced a form of crimes against humanity either by White Europeans or other fellow minorities, yet you do not see them accepting abnormal behavior such as high rate of unwed mothers and reckless absentee fathers.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that NWNW is somehow equated with genocide either stems from historical ignorance or the inability to comprehend societal norms of a functioning family. Interracial marriages or any other healthy union where children grow up as a functioning members of society does NOT leads to genocide. Perhaps we need to comprehend the definition and historical ramification of real genocide: Holocaust, Armenian and Rwandan genocide of ethnically targeted killing.
Besides, the black community is already experiencing a cleansing of their own choice from black men being the highest member of prison inmates, high rate of Aids, gang killings, etc, etc. No need for interracial marriages/dating; or waiting until you are financially and emotionally ready to have a child to negatively impact the black community, they have already willfully and ignorantly been inflicted such detrimental wounds since the 70s.
ggSpiritWrites quote: "So what would happen if the future mothers and fathers of our bloodline wholeheartedly followed this movement? Given the fact that they should not procreate until they are “emotionally, physically and financially able to care for” children, that would significantly reduce the census of this already identified minority."
Huda: Honestly, having children after 'Marriage' has not eliminated or reduced the population of any other ethnic minorities from Asians to Arabs, so what anthropological or social studies are you using to argue such a point?
besides, many of these children are already dying or following a harmful path because of unwed mothers and fathers who did not take the responsibility over their reproductive choice....millions of black children are already in government system without any healthy or loving family to raise them. Not to count the millions who have to raise themselves on the street. I work with youth and the number of hungry children who start crimes at such a young age, just to feed themselves because their dear mom is partying like she's 20 and their dad is no where to be found breaks my heart.
Its sad and tragic to realize that its only the black community that glorified unwed motherhood, which is often carried by the weakest among us, whether its black men utter failure as responsible fathers (70% of children without a father are black), or the misplaced loyalty some black women feel towards the black community that has yet to serve their interest of protect their vulnerable boys and girls from predators.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteK. Michel Again, thank you and I'm glad I could inspire a post. Looking forward to reading it!
ReplyDeleteLunaNoire Respectfully I thank you for your comment and understand the reasoning of this piece is out of the scope of many. I'm sure that when people were convinced the world was flat the notion it may actually be round sounded bizarre too. May I suggest you read K. Michel's comment as their analysis of the reasoning provides a clear and concise explanation.
ReplyDeleteHuda, Thank you for your comment. To be clear, this piece was not at all debating the principles of NWNW, which I stated were admirable. I am in no way anti-marriage, as that would be hypocritical being that I've been married for over 11 years. I am in no way saying that marriage reduces populations. What I'm saying is if a value system or standard is being imposed to represent an individual's right to reproduce then the value or standard should be clearly defined and attainable.
ReplyDeleteIf we say a person must be financially ready, how much money do we think they need to have? Is being poor but happy acceptable or must one own a Bentley prior to procreation? My issue is not with the basic principles but the voice in which it is being delivered, which given the backlash has been seen as elitist, insulting and condescending.
As you've pointed out "the black community is already experiencing a cleansing of their own choice from black men being the highest member of prison inmates, high rate of Aids, gang killings, etc, etc.", so my question was rather than just telling these people they are not worthy of reproduction, what is being done as part of the movement to improve these
conditions so that many people who don't currently meet the standard are not denied the basic human desire to reproduce. Otherwise, we are simply telling them, please don't reproduce.
As for the black community being "stuck on the 'victim' mentality of poor us descendant of slavery, hence every destructive element inflicted on the black community within themselves should be excused or blamed on long ago history" this is where I disagree. The difference is that the black community continues to be systemically victimized. Formal segregation just ended a little over 50 yrs ago and informal, separate and unequal practices still exist. I would have like to believe that santa claus was real but he isn't. I'd like to believe that racism doesn't exist and continue to negatively impact the black community but alas it does.
Given the fact that racism is very much alive, I also feel that in order for the black community to be "emotionally able" the pain of history and the continued effect of racism must be acknowledged and addressed. If you attempt to empower disenfranchised people with a voice that says, "The obstacles you identify or feel aren't real, just do right and stop choosing to do wrong" I'm sure your attemps will fail.
In your "work with youth and the number of hungry children who start crimes at such a young age, just to feed themselves because their dear mom is partying like she's 20 and their dad is no where to be found" do you tell them to suck it up and get over it or do you validate their experience and provide them with opportunities to improve their situation?
Again, when I first heard of NWNW and my friend was vehemently defending herself, I thought perhaps she was personalizing. However, as I began to hear the voice of the advocates, I understood why she was offended. Great cause but the loudest voices representing it are out of tune.
@ G.G.--You and your husband made the conscious and mature decision not to have another child. The reasons you say are because of financial burden and it would mean limiting opportunities to your son. Now, you question if your choice was self-sterilization thus contributing to the ultimate genocide of our community"? Since when does making a responsible, family planning decision equate to genocide? The adoption agencies are FILLED with blk children. And
ReplyDeleteso many of our children have turned to the streets b/c they were born to parents not ready to have them. Not all of our children, but many. This is ONE of the reasons why our kids are filling up juvenille hall, dropping out of school, etc. That's killing the community, not postponing to build a family because you don't have the means to care for a child.
Cocoa Fly, Thank you for your comment. You are correct. I made a conscious decision and yes questioned the standard I chose in making that decision. I tend to look at the larger picture. Over time, if we all make these conscious & responsible decisions but the factors that affect us don't change, will we reproduce less? The thought process is a bit existential but the point was to ask, what are we doing about the factors that affect these decisions? How are we addressing the issues that affect black families to allow us to complete our families in the way we would like to? Racial disparity in employment and wages can't simply be dismissed.
ReplyDeleteAs stated in prior comments: What is the standard of being emotionally, physically & financially able to have children? How much money does one need to have the right to reproduce? What are we doing to help the target population meet this standard?
What I am questioning is the measure of the suggested values & standards. Who should set them?
"One day I asked her, “Do you entertain guests in a dirty house?” Of course she stated she would not to which I replied that as black people we have too much house cleaning to do before we can entertain guests..."
ReplyDeleteNobody's "house" is in perfect order.
You can divide the human race into whatever segments you want. You could just as easily suggest middle-class African Americans shouldn't marry poor African Americans because one's house is "cleaner" than the other.
These are typical arguments against the inevitable, which is more intermarriage. It's going to continue to increase no matter how many half-baked reasons anyone can come up with as to why people should only marry within false racial boundaries.
Oh man, I am white, under 6 feet tall, and in an unwed relationship that produced a baby. So am I the bad guy on all counts...??? Love ya gg. Just saying.
ReplyDeletedon't know Joseph, are you involved in your child's life? are you a present 'father' for this child? if the answers are yes, then no this does not apply to you. Besides, this is an issue that concerns the millions of fatherless & neglected black children and how to reduce such a tragedy....and not a sweeping generalization for those who live together under 'civil union'.
ReplyDelete+++++++++++++++++++++++
first of all, thanks for responding to me ggSpirit, here are my last few comments:
ggSpirit: “This was the response to Huda/Hodan’s comment:
Huda, Thank you for your comment. To be clear, this piece was not at all debating the principles of NWNW, which I stated were admirable. What I’m saying is if a value system or standard is being imposed to represent an individual’s right to reproduce then the value or standard should be clearly defined and attainable.”
Hodan: I do believe it was defined clearly by the NWNW movement, all one has to do is check the website and resource info. I also believe there are clear and amble evidence pointing out why the black community need to check itself when it comes to unwed mothers and fathers and millions of children in the country who have no adequate home, safe environment and are often than not either dumped into the government system or onto the street.
ggspirit: If we say a person must be financially ready, how much money do we think they need to have? Is being poor but happy acceptable or must one own a Bentley prior to procreation? My issue is not with the basic principles but the voice in which it is being delivered, which given the backlash has been seen as elitist, insulting and condescending.
Hodan: I don’t know how well you know the black community, but those who have children by and large have no income, live on welfare or work 3 different jobs just to pay the bills and feed their fatherless children. One does not need to own a Bentley to have a happy childhood/family.
ggSpirit: As you’ve pointed out “the black community is already experiencing a cleansing of their own choice from black men being the highest member of prison inmates, high rate of Aids, gang killings, etc, etc.”, so my question was rather than just telling these people they are not worthy of reproduction, what is being done as part of the movement to improve these conditions so that many people who don’t currently meet the standard are not denied the basic human desire to reproduce. Otherwise, we are simply telling them, please don’t reproduce.
Hodan: I might sound harsh, but its not the responsibility of you or I, heck even any black woman to take care or fix what ales the black community, black men in particular. This self sacrifice have, to put it crudely fucked up the black women chance of a happy marriage, healthy life style all because they want to fix a community that has no will to fix its own $hit. For instance, this whole outrage over NWNW is a great example of why we in the black community are our worse ENEMY…..we all know how to bitch and whine about racism, the big bad white man, how its hard to get a decent man, a present father, etc, etc. However, the moment constructive solutions are offered, every sister soldier comes out of the woodwork to find fault with it.
lAST PART:
ReplyDeleteggspirit: As for the black community being “stuck on the ‘victim’ mentality of poor us descendant of slavery, hence every destructive element inflicted on the black community within themselves should be excused or blamed on long ago history” this is where I disagree. The difference is that the black community continues to be systemically victimized. Formal segregation just ended a little over 50 yrs ago and informal, separate and unequal practices still exist. I would have like to believe that santa claus was real but he isn’t. I’d like to believe that racism doesn’t exist and continue to negatively impact the black community but alas it does.”
Hodan: in the words of the wise Khadija (Sojourn blog), tell me what has the black community done lately for themselves? Racism or any form of bigotry will always exist because its the human conditions to be greedy, prejudicial asshole. Every other minority have been screwed over by the ‘White European,’ yet they do not use it as a glitch to hold on to this idea that systematic racism is keeping them down. If our grandparents and parents @ the height of segregation and Jim Crow can accomplish academic and financial success, then there is absolutely no excuse for any black man and woman since the 60s to be an utter failure in the United States, Canada or elsewhere. Lastly, if you are waiting for anyone to acknowledge racism exist, then you are expecting to be validated by another person who might not care for your history, let along hold good intention for you.
ggspirit: Given the fact that racism is very much alive, I also feel that in order for the black community to be “emotionally able” the pain of history and the continued effect of racism must be acknowledged and addressed.”
Hodan: I don’t know about you, but no one has denied the pain or reality of black people experience in the United States or elsewhere, and even if they do, so what? However, we can’t keep using what our ancestral went through, when the majority of black people have yet to come up with a proactive approach to fix their deteriorating community. Its not the white man who is shooting black teens, its not the white man who is raping and molesting black women or girls, its all done by black men and ignored or tolerated by the black community.
ggspirit: In your “work with youth and the number of hungry children who start crimes at such a young age, just to feed themselves because their dear mom is partying like she’s 20 and their dad is no where to be found” do you tell them to suck it up and get over it or do you validate their experience and provide them with opportunities to improve their situation?”
Hodan: I don’t think most of the youth I work with care to be validated, many are angry and need a good advice and the opportunity to improve their living condition (specially those who are willing to be helped). They care about the here and now, why their parents neglected them….not some abstract historical reference.
ggSpirit: “We need to recognize that the desire to reproduce is an innate need.”
Hodan: I beg to disagree, we are not animals who need to breed without consequences or impact. In fact, its not innate in us to have children, there are millions of people who have no interest in reproducing whether married or single. Besides, I believe humans as evolved beings with the cognitive ability for self preservation should think about the tremendous burden and responsibility of having a child. As a married woman and a mother, you know its not a joke to have kids willy nilly….and its imperative that you realize empowering our girls and boys about the importance of responsible reproductive choices is key to their future.
Anonymous, I'm truly amazed how much people focused on my personal decision. I never set any racial boundaries on relationships in general, solely for myself which, just as people have the right to choose to date outside of their race, I have the right to choose to stay within mine.
ReplyDeleteAs the the clean house reference, that was referring to the larger black community. Clearly, we as a people have many issues to address and as the saying says, charity begins at home. We as a people need to learn to invest in ourselves and each other. It was not a literal suggestion that pine sol can fix.
Again, the point was to question the standard being imposed to set the bar for reproduction.
Joseph, LOL thank you for helping to temper this heated discussion! You will never be a bad guy in my eyes and this forum is open to all! Appreciate ya :-)
ReplyDelete"I never set any racial boundaries on relationships in general, solely for myself which, just as people have the right to choose to date outside of their race, I have the right to choose to stay within mine."
ReplyDeleteI could say the same, as a white man!
I'm a mixed female (Black & Italian) who has been married to a Black man for going on 6 years (& we're both turning 26 here soon). I guess we would embody what NWNW is saying...as young people, we married for love & no other reason & didnt start having unprotected sex until then. We followed all of NWNW's rules as far as procreation & responsibility, etc...
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with the points NWNW is making (from the single parenting being an epidemic, teen pregnancies being an issue, etc) I disagree that it is a blanket "fix it" issue. My husband & I have had severe issues. Getting married so young, there has been rampant infidelity & immaturity that caused us to make poor decisions for our future...we didnt see a future for a while so we didnt think of it. In addition, we've been pregnant 4 times..I've had 2 miscarriages, 1 child die of SIDS & then we have our daughter who just turned 3...again, I will turn 26 at the end of this month...we have been through IT ALL...
I think pushing young Black youth into marriage before procreation is just an extension of the Abstinence-only rhetoric the Bush administration forced down our throats...and we see all the good that has done. Instead of just a blanket NWNW charge, we should be educating our youth in the ways to prevent pregnancy & using these stats as a way to bolster that agreement. We should be helping our youth take responsibility financially, emotionally, ethically--find ways to make connections where there's an obvious disconnect. Saying "No Wedding No Womb" is a nice catchy phrase, but its really stating the obvious, like "The Sky Is Blue". STATING we have a problem is easy..but finding a blanket to cover it is NOT so easy--or responsible, in my opinion.
To finish my point, pushing youths into marriage is not necessarily a great idea. We should do what we can to have both parents be involved...fix the disconnect between young black males & their children...marriage is not a cure-all just like an anchor baby is not a fix it.
GG, excellent blog post. I'm in agreement on all levels.
ReplyDeleteI went over to the mentioned person’s blog and read some of her points. She does have SOME valid points the ones that she was making and not just insinuating. She said
ReplyDelete“Furthermore, what is the standard? What makes them emotionally, physically and financially able? Who sets this standard? As the leader, if you are trying to obtain a mark that means you are setting the standard, defining the terms. Given the backlash you are receiving from single moms and potential parents, I question whether the ideals you have adopted are out of touch with the needs and issues of your target population. If they never meet your standard, is your message then "You are not worthy of reproduction?"
I for one would like to contribute to this response.
The aim is correctly targeted. At AA women/girls who want happy wholesome family life. Don’t they, that is why they are having the children right? That is why they were in the relationships and produced the offspring right?
The standard? No wedding no womb-nuff said!
Emotionally able?-Some things people are going to have to research and read up on for themselves. This is an individual understanding and comfort level and people will have to properly apply information to their own situation. Ask,Seek,knock.
Physically able?-when you have the will to physically contribute to the needs of the child for as long and in as much as they shall need.
Financially?-when you are able to provide without using support from entities set up to hold you back and limit what you can have and produce.
Who sets the standards?-our bleeding hearts looking at our children and community saying “hmm, something isn’t right;.
Ideals out of touch?-This very movement NWNW is set up for these mothers, so they can be free from burden ,stress ,pain, humiliation, and yes single mothers are experiencing these things, which doesn’t make them unworthy mothers, but rather qualifies them for such a special message as this NO WEDDING NO WOMB!
If they never ‘meet’ the standards is the message you are not worthy of reproduction?-let’s just lay aside that some of these women don’t get to meet their own goals and dreams when faced with single motherhood-No it’s not that they are not worthy of reproduction, but rather the children that would come from them are not worthy of that type of setup. It’s not single mothers who are wrong with all their hard work and effort put into the cause, it’s the STATE of singlemotherhood that is such a drain to the mother and the children.
I understand what is being said with some of the contributors using offensive terms. It may be that they themselves are still struggling with and coming to terms with-‘what’s wrong with singlemotherhood anyway’. They can only come up with things that have been thrown at them.
I am a single mother. I highly value and highly respect my family. I am the head of my family and we are as important as any other family, and I would never want anyone to try and disqualify us. But God knows ( I have seen his hand working to protect and provide) I should have and deserve a husband leading protecting, providing, teaching our family. Stop the glorification of singlemotherhood. I’m hoping from this year forward to start seeing a drop in the oow conceptions/births. Because they are disgusting? No- because these women and children are precious, priceless treasures who deserve every set up possible to insure there WELLBEING. No one has a problem with WELLFARE being set up to provide and help and sustain. What about setting up a family structure that will do that and SO MUCH MORE? It appears that some AA women are stuck/hung up on feminism talk which doesn’t fly for AA women. So you have the AA woman who is well educated, married and -insinuating ‘well, if they can’t jump as high as I can, who am I to judge?’ My message to you ( ggSpiritWrites) wake up lady, that message was sent out by white women who didn’t want AA women to achieve/get/have/anything. Shake off that spell and come forward!
moon, Thank you for visiting and thank you for your comment and support. Appreciate ya!
ReplyDeletesquarlymade, Thank you for visiting this blog and for your comment. wow! I can honestly see that you are very passionate about single motherhood (and I'm in no way being facetious). However, I think you are directing your anger in the wrong place. I am in now way "glorifying singlemotherhood". Again, I stated the basic premise of NWNW appears admirable, so I won't debate them. I do applaud you for concretely outlining your ideas of what they mean.
With that said, there are a couple of things you wrote that I would like to address: "This very movement NWNW is set up for these mothers, so they can be free from burden ,stress ,pain, humiliation, and yes single mothers are experiencing these things, which doesn’t make them unworthy mothers, but rather qualifies them for such a special message as this NO WEDDING NO WOMB!"
I respectfully disagree. From what I've seen so far, NWNW has actually contributed to the "burden ,stress ,pain, humiliation" of single mothers with their "special message". Rather than addressing systemic issues that lead to these pitfalls, NWNW has contributed degradation all while offering no true action to improve these issues. Personally I believe there are systemic problems (aka the disease) that need to be addressed rather than putting a band-aid or administering a face-slap to the systems.
You stated, "I should have and deserve a husband leading protecting, providing, teaching our family" so I ask you, what things do you think would need to change to make this happen for the target population, black women and men? Certainly denigrating black women and men is not the answer. You pointed to me being "well-educated". Schools are funded by property tax which to me equates to separate and unequal practices. In addition, many of us who do complete college/graduated school are saddled with student loan debt. I'm a social worker, yes by a conscious choice to serve my community, and even though it required a masters degree to be licensed the salary does not meet the debt burden. Those issues should be addressed, as should the racial disparity in employment and earnings. I'm sorry but simply telling people to "put a ring on it" does not solve these issues.
How do I know? As you also pointed out I am married. That doesn't mean that I necessarily fare better than anyone else. Yes, I am thankful that I have support in parenting from the father of my child. Again, no argument there. However marriage is not a fairy tale that magically launches you into happily-ever-after. Being married to a black man, we both are affected by the systemic issues that hinder the black community, two people working against the odds to protect, provide and teach the children. Both single parenting and marriage come with a unique set of challenges.
As for this, "So you have the AA woman who is well educated, married and -insinuating ‘well, if they can’t jump as high as I can, who am I to judge?" I think this is where you have to examine your own personal feelings because speaking for myself I never insinuated any such thing. I think that every individual, barring mental challenges, is capable of jumping as high as they want to. What I would like to see is a leveled playing field. This is what I feel NWNW fails to acknowlege and address.
Truly, wishing you all the best sis.
I appreciate your response. I’m engaging in this conversation with you so that may-be someone reading will have a change of heart. Clearly, you are already set up. You made sure you were taken care of. LOL.
ReplyDeleteI don’t believe ‘put a ring on it’ is the proper term for NWNW. This is not a call to cover up mess, but to carefully prepare and set up the best situation for any child to be conceived into a family. NWNW.
I want to pull the focus back on the children and the women barring these burdens. While there may be a ‘set of challenges that come with marriage’ the burden of singlemotherhood weighs profoundly on the backs of black children. You’ve seen it in your profession I’m sure. Along with any burden that a singlemother may bear, watching her children go through distress because of it, is an added one.
You said: “Rather than addressing systemic issues that lead to these pitfalls…offering no true action to improve these issues.” WHAT! System! The ship is sinking! There are things RIGHT NOW that can be done to put a halt to this EPIDEMIC. By the way you and I both know that there have been many attempts for many years to address said system!
My ‘passion’ for bw and children having a good life is not anger! Some of us care about bw and children beyond our selves and our families; knowing that it is very probable that they can have a life free of useless distress.
squarlymade, Thanks for engaging in this discussion for whatever reason. I apologize for the delayed response but life does get hectic at times.
ReplyDeleteI think you make some assumptions that expose a fatal flaw in NWNW thinking. "Clearly, you are already set up. You made sure you were taken care of. LOL"
I did not make sure I was "set up" at all. My husband and I met in high school and married without the proverbial pot to piss in. I married for love and also took my vows seriously, for richer and for poorer.
I think NWNW sets up the old Cinderella theory of being rescued. While I can appreciate the want/need of a woman to feel protected and provided for, things don't always work out that way.
NWNW says make smart choices in choosing a mate, of course considering financial stability. If today's economy has demonstrated anything it could be here today, gone tomorrow. So what happens when/if poorer occurs? A resentful, unhappy union? What about the children in that situation? Does woman then divorce Mr. Right turned wrong and seek out the next provider?
Despite what you may think, I care about the black community way beyond myself and my opposition to these flawed ideologies is because, in the long run, I see them doing more harm than good.
In any event, I wish you all the best in your path and hope that one day we, the collective community, will meet in a better place.
ggSpiritWrites I really hope you'll consider copying your last comment to the article over here: http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/nwnw/?p=270 I would have missed it had I not decided to Google you and read the whole blog post for myself. I think it's a very sound response and want to make sure others have the opportunity to read it.
ReplyDeleteElle, Welcome and thank you for your comment/suggestion. I considered doing so in the hope that squarlymade did see the response but will do so for general observation. Thanks again.
ReplyDelete